Jan 18, 2023 I Nick Redfern

More on the Matter of Bob Lazar, "Containers" and Stolen Souls: A Sinister Saga of UFOs and Demons

Many of you, I'm sure, have heard about Bob Lazar's claims about "containers" and human souls. Well, I thought I would expand this controversy and demonstrate that Lazar was not the only one who found themselves in the heart of this strange situation. With that said, let's have a look at the data we have. There can be very few people who are interested in the domain of supernatural phenomena who have not heard of the so-called alien abduction phenomenon. It’s a subject that has captured the attention of not just UFO enthusiasts, but also the mainstream media and the public, too. To demonstrate how the subject has become part of the mainstream, one only has to take a look at the story of Whitley Strieber’s 1987 book, Communion. In no time at all, Strieber’s book – which told of his very own encounters with abductors that he called “the Visitors” – became a New York Times bestseller. Such a thing was previously unheard of in the domain of Ufology. On top of that, Strieber and his late wife, Anne, received quite literally hundreds of thousands of letters from the readers of Communion, all wanting to share their own, personal stories. Clearly, the phenomenon resonates with people to an extraordinarily high degree

It’s hard to say with one hundred percent certainty when the first alien abduction event occurred. Many, early encounters may have never been revealed, chiefly due to concerns and fears of ridicule. There is, however, no doubt at all about which case was responsible for bringing the issue to a wide audience. It was a curious affair that occurred on the night of September 19, 1961 and which was chronicled at length in John Fuller’s very appropriately-titled book of 1966, The Interrupted Journey. The story revolves around a married couple, Barney and Betty Hill, from New Hampshire. They had taken what promised to be a welcoming vacation in Canada. It was: the pair had a great time, one of the highlights of which was a trip to Niagara Falls. It was on the way back home, however, that everything went wrong and their lives rapidly unraveled. All was normal until, on one particular, dark stretch of road near Lincoln, New Hampshire, the Hills saw something strange in the black skies above them. What it was, Betty and Barney had no idea. But, it certainly didn’t look like a regular aircraft or helicopter, that’s for sure. They were particularly attracted by “its shape and the intensity of its lighting as compared to the stars in the sky,” reported Major Paul W. Henderson, of the U.S. Air Force, in an official dossier on the incident – dated September 21, 1961 - which has been declassified under the terms of the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. 

(Nick Redfern) Alien abductions and the soul.

So amazed by what they were seeing, Betty and Barney stopped their car and they got out to take a closer look at it, with Barney’s binoculars, which he had fortunately brought along on the vacation. The object – perhaps reacting to the actions of the pair – shot away, performing erratic maneuvers, such as constantly changing its flight pattern and even briefly hovering silently in the sky. Then, something even more incredible happened: what appeared to be a pair of wings came out of the craft, which now gave the vehicle an appearance that was somewhat airplane-like. According to Major Henderson, in his aforementioned report, the pair saw the craft “swoop down in the general direction of their auto.” As the UFO closed in, both husband and wife could now hear a curious series of “buzzes” coming from it. The object soon shot away again and the Hills, amazed and more than a bit alarmed over what had happened, couldn’t do much beyond continue with their drive. Interestingly, although they did not see the craft again, they did hear the odd “buzz” once more – this time as they were in the area of Ashland, roughly around thirty miles from Lincoln. 

While that, in essence, is what the Hills consciously remembered, there was also the matter of what was deeply buried within the minds of Betty and Barney – and which they couldn’t remember; at least, not consciously, anyway. In the days and weeks after the event, both Betty and Barney began to experience traumatic and frightening dreams – of not just seeing a UFO, but also of being taken on-board it and, essentially, being treated like lab rats. They were subjected to a number of trauma-filled experiments – which included the painful experience of Betty having a needle pushed into her navel. It sounds vaguely like an amniocentesis test, but it was clearly something else, as during an amniocentesis procedure, the needle is inserted into the wall of the abdomen, finally reaching the amniotic sac. When the nightmares grew ever worse for the Hills, and continued for no less than a couple of years, the pair knew that they finally had to do something about it, which they eventually did. In doing so, they alerted the world to the alien abduction phenomenon – although that was certainly not their intention.

In December 1963, Barney and Betty decided to consult a Massachusetts-based psychiatrist named Benjamin Simon, who was also a neurologist. A wealth of hypnotic sessions soon followed, which showed that the Hills had experienced a significant amount of what, in UFO research, is known as “missing time.” Something very strange had taken place on the drive home, something which finally led the Hills to the conclusion that alien entities had wiped their memories clean of what really happened on that dark, September night in 1961. Such was the interest in the case – which, back then, was largely unique in the field of Ufology - it led John Fuller to pen The Interrupted Journey. The alien abduction phenomenon was duly born. It not only continues to live: it positively thrives. And on a worldwide basis, too.  Since the now-historic encounter of Betty and Barney Hill in September 1971, literally thousands of reports of alien abduction have been reported all across the globe. How many cases remain completely unreported – for fear of ridicule, or of being labelled a liar or a crank – is anyone’s guess. There is, however, one aspect of the alien abduction controversy that most assuredly does not get the coverage that it deserves. It is an issue that involves the syphoning and even the ingesting of the human soul – by creatures from some other realm of existence that appears to be definitively soul-less. It’s an aspect of the UFO phenomenon which takes us down an avenue that is far removed from what generally passes for tales of flying saucers and little green men.

(Nick Redfern) The late alien abduction expert, Budd Hopkins, who also knew of the "soul stories."

Many UFO researchers are reluctant to address the “aliens are eating our souls” theory. The fact is, though, that there are far more than a few such reports on record. In fact, it’s fair and accurate to say there is an incredible number of such cases. The problem is, however, that for so many in Ufology, the subject is so troubling and disturbing they choose to outright ignore it. Before we get to the “eating” angle, let’s first make a case that there is indeed a connection between the alien abduction issue and the human soul. You may be surprised by the scale of such encounters. One of the earliest – and most intriguing - cases on record came from a man named Paul Inglesby. Just one year before the Second World War broke out in 1939, Inglesby – who died in 2010 – went down with a very serious case of malaria. So serious was it that for a while Inglesby perilously hovered in that mysterious domain between life and death. It was while in this limbo-like state that Inglesby had a frightening dream.

Years later, he recalled how it all went down: it was an undetermined time in the Earth’s future and UFO-like craft were soaring across the fire-and smoke-filled skies of our ruined, radioactive planet and launching nuclear missiles at our major cities – killing billions and causing planet-wide destruction. The UFOs were not piloted by extraterrestrials, though, but by demonic entities whose goal was to suck out the souls of those killed in the fiery inferno, which was rapidly overwhelming the Earth and just about everything on it. For Inglesby, it was quite literally a wake-up call. The malaria cleared up, Inglesby came out of his unconscious state, and he spent the rest of his life pursuing a career in the church and warning people to avoid the UFO issue – fearing that it would lead people to become ensnared by malevolent demonic monsters, all of which Inglesby described in his 1978 book, UFOs and the Christian

The unsettling story of Paul Inglesby dates back to the 1930s, and it was in the 1950s that he largely began talking about his nightmarish dream – after he realized that what he had seen back in 1938 were images of nuclear explosions and “mushroom clouds” of the type that were all too familiar by the 1950s. It’s important to note, though, that the issue of a connection between UFOs, aliens and the human soul didn’t really surface to any kind of meaningful degree until the latter part of the 1980s – which takes us back to the issue of Whitley Strieber’s bestseller of 1987, Communion. When word of Strieber’s planned book first got out, most Ufologists assumed that the book, in terms of its content and its theories, would be fairly akin to John Fuller’s The Interrupted Journey of 1966 and to Budd Hopkins’ 1981 book, Missing Time. Both books adhered to the now-familiar theory that aliens are stealing our DNA to save their waning species. Well, they are certainly stealing something, but it’s not our DNA. Strieber’s revelations were, in many respects, far removed from the writings of Hopkins and Fuller, which is why the book created such a firestorm in those locales where ufologists hang out. 

In Communion, Strieber made it very clear that his own encounters with the Visitors – and those of others he had spoken to – revealed a startling connection between alien abductions and the human soul; even a paradigm-shifting connection. In his book, Strieber talked about how abductees experienced their souls “dragged” from their bodies during abductions. Strieber himself was told by his abductors that they “recycled” human souls. That sounds quite comforting, as it suggests reincarnation may be a reality – something which will ensure us further lives after this one. But, was Strieber being told the entire truth by his captors? Or, was this an attempt on their part to push thing down a different, more appealing path? Certainly, Strieber admitted something notable that suggests he recognized that not everything was good and positive. Strieber said that, the more and more he dig into the matter of his encounters, and as he tried to get a handle on what was afoot, he was unable to banish from his mind the theories of Charles Fort. For those who may not know, he was an acclaimed writer on all manner of paranormal phenomena. His books included Lo! and Wild Talents. Fort had darkly suggested that, in Strieber’s own words in his 1988 book, Transformation, we the human race, are “animals here for the slaughter and incapable of seeing the greater and more terrible meanings that surround us.”

As for more on Charles Fort’s opinions, they can be read in his classic title of 1919, The Book of the Damned. Fort wrote: “I think we’re property [italics mine]. I should say we belong to something: That once upon a time, this earth was No-man's Land, that other worlds explored and colonized here, and fought among themselves for possession, but that now it's owned by something: That something owns this earth - all others warned off.” Whitley Strieber is not the only writer-researcher on the alien abduction issue to have made a deep connection between the phenomenon and the human soul. Another was the late Dr. John E. Mack, a Harvard University professor, who was killed by a drunk driver in London, England in 2004. Mack wrote two books on the subject, Abduction and Passport to the Cosmos. One of Mack’s many patients was a man named Greg. He told Mack of an experience of the abduction type – but not with the typical small, large-headed, black-eyed aliens that have become known as the Greys. No, Greg’s encounter was with tall, scaly creatures that resembled the monster in Universal Studios’ classic movie of 1954, Creature from the Black Lagoon. In UFO terminology, they are known as the Reptilians. Greg confided in Mack that he felt the lizard people he encountered were trying to extract his soul from his physical body.  Another of Mack’s patients, Isabel, talked of aliens that can “fool you into handing over” your soul.

It’s also worth noting the experience of Sergeant John Healey, of the U.S. Army Reserve. On the night of October 18, 1973, he encountered a brightly-lit UFO, as he and his colleagues were on-board a UH-1H helicopter, rapidly closing in on Cleveland Hopkins, Airport, Ohio. In the aftermath of the encounter – which, in essence, was a near-collision between the two craft – Healey had several weird out-of-body experiences, as he told to UFO investigator, Jennie Zeidman. It was, he explained, as if he was dead in his bed, and that his spirit was above him, staring down at his sleeping form in the bed. That Sergeant Healey’s experiences occurred not in relation to the abduction phenomenon, but to a UFO sighting, suggests that other components of the UFO issue come into play when it comes to the relationship between UFOs, life after death, and our souls. Notably, several members of the helicopter crew were later contacted by representatives of the Department of Defense, who exhibited interest in – and deep concerns about – the UFO / soul-ingestion angle. This suggests a disturbing scenario: that certain elements of the U.S. Government may know something of the origins and agenda of the paranormal parasites. In fact, as we’ll now see, that’s exactly how it seems: Uncle Sam may know all about these menacing energy-eating entities that intrude upon our world. 

(Nick Redfern) A helicopter flight, a UFO and an out-of-body experience.

Now, let’s take a look at the incredible story of a man named Robert Scott Lazar, but who prefers to go by Bob. For several months in the latter part of 1988, Lazar was employed at the most famous and mystery-filled U.S. Government-owned facility of all time: Area 51, which is located in the depths of the Nevada Desert. Specifically, it was in a portion of the facility, called S-4, in which Lazar worked. The origins of the base date back to the early 1950s, when the incredibly well-guarded installation was constructed to oversee the testing of new and radical aircraft. Over the years, the U-2 spy-plane, the SR71 Blackbird spy-plane, and both the F-117 Nighthawk Stealth fighter and the B-2 Spirit Stealth bomber were all tested and secretly flown at Area 51. And with practically no-one – outside of the programs – ever having any idea of what was taking place. Area 51 is surely the ultimate modern-day fortress.

As most people will be aware, Area 51 is far more well-known for the tales coming out of the base in relation to UFOs and aliens. So the story goes, since the 1950s Area 51 has been the secret storage area - and possibly even the testing area, too - for an untold number of captured and crashed and recovered extraterrestrial spacecraft. Some are said to be partially wrecked and others, we are told, are in near-pristine conditions. There is no doubt that without the testimony which surfaced publicly from Lazar in early 1989 - when he spoke with George Knapp, of Las Vegas’ KLAS-TV, and who devoted significant airtime to the words of the controversial whistleblower – Area 51 would still languish in secrecy and obscurity, unknown to just about one and all. Lazar told Knapp that programs were actively running at Area 51 to try and understand the extraterrestrial technology which was in the hands of the U.S. Government’s finest and most brilliant scientists. Lazar continued that a small team at the base was trying to duplicate the technology, and that, incredibly, there might have been both dead and living aliens at the base – the latter dwelling deep underground, amid myriad tunnels and caverns way below the desert environment of Nevada.

Although the U.S. Government will not confirm Lazar’s claims of alien activity at Area 51 – which is not at all surprising - it’s most intriguing and telling that the government refuses to deny the story. Instead, the government has done nothing but offer a stony, awkward silence. Had Lazar concocted the whole thing out of his own mind, one could make a good argument that it would have been very quick and easy for officialdom to quickly bring matters to rest. But, three decades after Lazar came forward, there is still no denunciation from the government. Sometimes, silence speaks volumes – and that may have been the case with regard to Lazar and his claims of extensive UFO activity at Area 51. Now, let’s take a look at what Lazar learned during his brief time at Area 51, in relation to the matter of the human soul. It adds further support to the theory that the government knows, or suspects, what the soul-eaters want from us. In addition, it provides a good, solid reason why the government may be fearful of sharing the terrifying facts with the rest of us.

(Central Intelligence Agency) This map, of Area 51, was once a classified document of the U.S. Government. It's now in the public domain.

It’s important to note that Bob Lazar was only in the employ of Area 51 for several months. There was a very good reason for that: when he was initially offered the job, Lazar was specifically warned that speaking out of turn, on what was afoot at the base, would be absolutely unacceptable – possibly even dangerous to his life. Lazar, however, being somewhat of a self-confessed maverick, chose to ignore this direct, stern order. Instead, Lazar quietly told his wife, and a good friend of his named Gene Huff, of what was going on at Area 51: aliens, UFOs; the whole show, in fact. When Lazar learned that his phone was being monitored and that his bosses at the base knew he had spilled the beans - and, as a result, were angry in the extreme - he decided never to go back to the base, fearing that if he did he might not get out alive. Lazar’s bones just might have ended up buried somewhere in the Nevada Desert. His suspicions might have been right on target. So, in essence, it was Lazar himself who terminated his own employment – rather than being terminated in a very different and fatal way. In that roughly three months of employment, Lazar learned a great deal – all of it amazing and life-changing. Had he not quit the program out of what was without doubt a deep concern for his safety, Lazar would likely have learned even more. According to the man himself, he was briefed on the long and winding history of the alien presence on Earth. He was told that the aliens were responsible for the creation and development of all of the world’s major religions, and that the extraterrestrial creatures came from a far-away star-system. 

More controversially, the aliens had supposedly genetically altered various kinds of early humans – such as the Neanderthals and the Cro-Magnons – into what we, Homo sapiens, are today. None of this, Lazar was told, could ever be shared with the public, due to the catastrophic effect it would have on the world of religion and the stability of human civilization. It was, the staff at Area 51 said, just too difficult and dangerous a story to share. Risking worldwide shock and even the collapse of civilization was simply not on the cards. So, the keepers of the secret at Area 51 chose to tell no-one outside of the program – as in ever. There was something else, too, that Lazar learned from the top secret briefing papers showed to him at Area 51. In fact, it was probably the most controversial aspect of his entire story. Of all the various revelations that Lazar made, the one – more than any other – which disturbed him and troubled him, was that relative to the human soul. The government was hiding out at Area 51 something that amounted to just about the biggest secret of all. Lazar learned that the aliens supposedly refer to us, the human race, as “containers.” Containers of what? Containers of souls, that’s what. On this issue, Lazar told George Knapp, on Ls Vegas’ KLAS-TV in 1989, that, “religion was created so we have some rules and regulations for the sole purpose of not damaging the containers.” 

(Nick Redfern) I focused on some of those "stolen souls" stories in my Final Events book.

George Knapp was not the only person who Bob Lazar spoke to on this issue of containers. Michael Lindemann is the author of a 1995 book, UFOs and the Alien Presence. He also questioned Lazar on this controversy-dominated aspect of the story of Lazar and Area 51. Lazar added a bit more to the story, when speaking with Lindemann, as the latter acknowledged in his book: he noted that Lazar said the containers were “extremely, extremely unique,” that they were “very difficult to find,” and that the biggest secret of all revolved around our souls. No wonder that the people in the know at Area 51 didn’t know how to tell the rest of the world the story they were forced to sit on – out of fear of worldwide anarchy breaking out, if it was revealed that religion was a creation of ancient extraterrestrials who devour our souls. But, what is it that is so important about the human soul, and how does it come into play with the story that this book tells? Let’s see.

Ray Boeche is both a priest and a UFO researcher who believes that the UFO phenomenon is demonic, rather than extraterrestrial, in nature. In November 1991, Boeche met with two Department of Defense physicists who were playing a dangerous game; an incredibly dangerous game. They were part of a top secret program working out of the Pentagon which was focused on contacting what were referred to by the group as “Non-Human Entities,” or NHEs. The plan was for the U.S. Government to try and do what we might call a “deal” with the NHEs – to specifically try and understand, replicate and then weaponize the supernatural powers of the demonic NHEs. 

Of course, the whole plan went totally awry – as Faustian pacts always do. There were deaths on the program, runs of bad luck, and a sense that the group had somehow been cursed – which was probably right on target. The two officials that Boeche met with wanted his guidance – as a prominent figure in the church, and also as someone well-affiliated with the UFO phenomenon – on what they should do next. Not surprisingly, Boeche said that nothing good or positive could come from engaging the NHEs: they should be completely avoided at all costs, he said. The two men thanked him and went on their way. Boeche had a couple of more communications with them, after which there was nothing but a stony silence. The group still exists, though.

Thanks to Ray Boeche sharing his story with me in January 2007, I was able to meet with a small number of those who were working on the program. One of the many things I was told very much ties in with what Bob Lazar talked about, as well as the observations of Professor John E. Mack, Paul Inglesby, and Whitley Strieber: namely, that the human soul was at the heart of the UFO presence on Earth. Particularly troubling to the DoD project members was that they had concluded something terrible and nightmarish: that the human soul is not something that the NHEs wish to snare and torment in some hellish realm. They believe that this was all a distortion of the real story – which was very different to the conventional story of Hell, the Devil and his minions. The program concluded something which is all but guaranteed to give each and every one of us nightmares: that the human soul is, in essence, a form of supernatural energy – a form of energy that the NHEs digest, rather than torment at the will of the Devil. Our souls are the food of the NHEs, was the bleak conclusion of those in the know in the Pentagon. This, you will recall, harks back to the comments of both Whitley Strieber and Charles Fort, who drew parallels between the Earth and a farm. And with us as the cattle caught in the middle.

It’s a story not unlike that presented in the 1999 movie, The Matrix. In the film, the human race is nothing but a source of fuel for highly-advanced machines that thrive on our electrical energy, while we all unknowingly live in a dream world born out of a sophisticated hologram: the Matrix of the movie’s title. Our lives are one big, collective nightmare, while the reality is the hellish Matrix. Just perhaps, the fiction of The Matrix is not as far removed from the truth as many might suspect it to be. We’ll close this chapter with the words of a man named Nigel Kerner, who has put together a persuasive argument that it is the human soul which obsessively attracts the Greys of alien abduction lore to us. The late Nigel Kerner wrote two books on this very topic: Songs of the Greys, which was published in 1997, and 2010’s Grey Aliens and the Harvesting of Souls. Kerner concludes that, essentially, the Greys are biological robots, created entities that lack the one thing we all have: a soul. For that reason, they are determined to make use of the human soul in much the same we do: as a vessel to ensure that they live on after physical, bodily death. Kerner says in Grey Aliens and the Harvesting of Souls: “…these entities are attempting to ‘piggy back’ our facility as human beings for eternal existence, hence their apparent fascination with the human reproductive capacity.” In that sense, the agenda of the Greys may be two-fold: to harness the human soul for immortality, but also to use it as a source of energy. Either way, or both ways, it’s fair to say we’re screwed. Or, hopefully not...

Nick Redfern

Nick Redfern works full time as a writer, lecturer, and journalist. He writes about a wide range of unsolved mysteries, including Bigfoot, UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, alien encounters, and government conspiracies. Nick has written 41 books, writes for Mysterious Universe and has appeared on numerous television shows on the The History Channel, National Geographic Channel and SyFy Channel.

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