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GROOM LAKE by Ben Templesmith via

Episode 405 – Mysterious Universe

Author and researcher Nigel Kerner joins us along with Dr. Andrew Silverman to discuss Nigel’s research into the true agenda of the Greys.

We also take a look at the recent storm in the Cryptozoological community over an eyewitness’ account of a Bigfoot family on his property.

Coming in at just over 2.5 hours this is our biggest episode yet!

Books, show notes, and music after the jump.

Nigel Kerner

Official Site

Supplemental Link:

The Shroud of Turin by Gilbert R. Lavoie, M.D.

Bigfoot Found in North America – Documented Events Reveal Sasquatch Liven

Overnight AM, Mr. Mike, Dementia, and Bigfootery Antics

Follow-Up on Lan Lamphere’s Internet Radio Broadcast

Update: Backyard Bigfoot Witness

Chinese Airport UFO

Weaponised drone Taranis

Black-Eyed People in Texas, Nebraska

Porting Digital Memory

Eckhart Encounters – SyFy


Internet WarriorOh No Ono
“Eleanor Speaks” (mp3)
from “Internet Warrior”
(Friendly Fire Recordings)

More On This Album

Attennuate IIMattias Fridell
“Attenuate II” (mp3)
from “Attennuate II”
(Clubstream Green)

More On This Album

“Lost caress” (mp3)
from “Disappeared”

Buy at Napster
Buy at iTunes Music Store
Buy at Amazon MP3
More On This Album

Kula Shaker – Ophelia via Noise Narcs

Nu EspritWreckage Machinery
“Side Roads” (mp3)
from “Nu Esprit”
(Esprit Records)

Buy at Napster
Buy at iTunes Music Store
Buy at Amazon MP3
More On This Album

SubTropic - EPBird of Prey, Random
“Sub Tropics” (mp3)
from “SubTropic – EP”
(Cyberset Music)

Buy at Napster
Buy at iTunes Music Store
Buy at Amazon MP3
More On This Album

Final Track – Regular Show

M83 – We Own the Sky (Datsik RMX) via Live for the FUNK

Maximalist- Baths via The New Montreal

Final Track

Tame Impala – Solitude Is Blis via Et Musique Pour Tous.

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  • abeam

    Good show. I love that you played a M83 track at the end.

    Thanks again for a free episode. And as i wrote some time ago it would be sweet to have the option to buy single +shows. I would like that.

  • MoTown Missile

    Bigfoot researchers are a joke, could not catch a cold, they are all a bunch of gossiping little school kids. to find something you must be smarter than what your trying to find. being as Sasquatch are people,,, researchers have no chance. These are the idiots that want to kill something for the better study,,, shoot a researcher and see why they are so stupid. Would help man kind to off the not so smart.

  • Cryptic24

    This seems to be the video for the Chinese UFO.

  • Joel Benavidez

    Hey, everything in season 4 and season 2+ has been soooo kick ass! The music has been very next gen, the content and quality is amazing. You guys took it up a notch this season, noticeably! Keep it up! Feel better Aaron!

  • RvX™

    I just love the approach Dr. Nigel Kerner exposes and the way he talks about it, it's really hard to find people who are this serious about this kind of research, love the show (again).
    Get better quick Aaron ! :)

  • Danielle Meierhenry

    So – Song of the Greys is no longer in print and used copies *start* at around $100. Is there a way to order copies directly from Nigel? I would love to get my hands on one. :)

  • Danielle Meierhenry

    Nevermind – I just found the link on his site to buy directly from him. Sorry about my trigger-happy-ness there. I was just so excited and wanted a book SOOOOO badly. LOL. You don't have to post these messages. :P

  • ST

    Love the show but I wish you would interview people who are a bit more credible.

  • Benjamin Grundy


  • ST

    Hi Ben. First, let me say, I'm a huge fan of you guys and I did not mean for my comment to cause offense- just in case it did I apologize. Anyway, I'll just throw out some names:
    Dr. Peter Fenwick- UK researcher into NDEs
    Guy Lyon Playfair- along with the late Maurice Grosse he was the lead investigator into the Enfield Poltergeist, he's also written a number of books (he wrote a book dealing with Enfield, he wrote one dealing with his time in Brazil and some of the odd things he researched there, a book on twin telepathy, etc.)
    Rick Strassman- author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, he's one of the few scientists in the US who has been able to do research on DMT, some of the accounts from his subjects seemed to mirror abduction accounts
    Joe McMoneagle- hands down the most legit remote reviewer I have come across, extremely humble, no bs, and very talented
    Dr. David Fontana- wrote a book called Is There An Afterlife: A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence, brilliant book and very entertaining read, and he's also an active investigator, he was one of the lead researchers at Scole and you can see clips of him on YouTube (he investigated what was known as Pete the Poltergeist)
    Dr. Stephen Braude- philosopher who has investigated a number of cases, wrote the book The Gold Leaf Lady
    Bill Chalker- Prominent Aussie UFO researcher who wrote the book The Hair of the Alien and was involved with the Kelly Cahill case.
    I'm sure I could think of more but this post is long enough. Look, I'm gonna keep tuning in regardless of who you interview- I have yet to hear an episode I didn't enjoy a lot. You guys are pros and it shows in the quality of the product you are putting out. And there is obviously a large part of your audience who wants to hear interviews with the kinds of folks that I don't find all that credible. I could very well be in the minority in the types of folks I would like to hear interviewed.

  • Benjamin Grundy

    Great list thank you. There's a few names on there I've had on my “to-do” list for quite a while ;)

  • abeam

    Maybe not so credible but entertaining : D And i must say that it not always has to be an scientistic approach for me. Or the view of a scientist. Maybe it might be fiction but i guess we all have minds to handle it. Take Ingo Swann. Psychic sexuality i want to read next. But the first I read was Penetration and laughed my butt off. I don't think it necessarily has to be untrue if it's a bit chaotic ; ) Who knows if it's all true if there isn't evidence. (What's evidence anyway – in UFO terms?) But i like people with a strong motivation. Anyway, i like the list. Some i know.

  • abeam

    And Ben: Did you tinker-tweak the Gate? Sounds like you gave it a little love!

  • Benjamin Grundy

    I may have turned a knob or two ;)

  • Overkil6

    For some of that interview it sounded like Nigel was wearing a monocle! :)

  • Overkil6

    Ben, Aaron – I ordered an iPad. I'm blaming you two. I'm sure Apple has your finders fee cheque in the post.

  • Benjamin Grundy

    I love my Iperd

  • Guest999

    To say I hate to say this would be an understatement because I'm quite a fan of MU, however, this is the first MU show I haven't been able to make it through. Listening to Nigel Kerner was exhausting to say the least. His periodic bouts of random giggling, the way he would – at least during the first part of the interview – end his sentences with either a gasp or an odd snorting noise, his stammering and his occasional misuse of common words really stretched his credibility for me.

    However, what sealed it: anytime someone names as a source various high-level military insiders who must rename anonymous that sets off some alarm bells. I appreciate the necessity of anonymous sources but there's nothing in Kerner's biography that would indicate he moves in the type of circles that would bring him across such types. Did he put an ad on craigslist, “Wanted: Military Insiders with Top Secret UFO Conspiracy Info to Reveal All”? If he can't reveal them (if they exist) some explanation as to how he came into contact with them and what steps he personally undertook for identity verification would seem to be warranted (particularly in light of the Richard Theilman shenanigans).

    I have something to say about his sidekick, too, but I don't think it's constructive so will end this post here.

  • NigelJS, start at £20 plus postage from the used section.

  • Robmac

    I couldn’t disagree more. This guy is discussing the most remarkable and inclusive thesis I have heard thus far and I’ve read pretty much all there is to read on the subject. If you think he has nothing of any importance to say check out this article from New Dawn magazine:…/visions-of-the-futu...

    In this article is the most cogent approach to the Grey alien phenomenon I’ve come across so far. Sorry to use the old cliché ‘don’t judge a book by its cover’ but its more than appropriate here. Perhaps Kerner’s style doesn’t fit your idea of how an interviewee should be, but I’ve heard hundreds of interviews with people who have nothing essentially to say but manage to say that nothing with a shiny polish of smooth talking without hesitation. This guy is natural and I’d prefer that any day to a perfectly presented polished performance with no substance. For me this guy spoke from the heart, he didn’t sell his ideas he just presented them for people to take a look at.

    Just check out his website and the articles he’s written. I am halfway through his book at the moment, I bought it after reading the New Dawn article and I agree with Aaron the more I think about what he says the more astonished I am about how it hangs together. In fact it prompted me to search him out on the net and that’s how I found this interview. As for judging from a short biography whether or not he may have come across high level contacts that is too ludicrous to comment on.

  • Onomaly Software

    I really enjoyed your interview with Stanton Friedman. That ones a few years old, but I still listen to it periodically. Its attained classical status with us.

  • Guest999

    I read the article to which you pointed and was deeply unimpressed. He has neither sources nor explanations of original research he cites (it reads like some channeled esoterica), however, liberally sprinkles quotes by learned scholars through it in such a haphazard way that I believe (and I think, correctly so) he is pushing the reader to make a fallacy of defective induction, which is the go-to fallacy of logic that most in “ufology” push to support their case that “overwhelming evidence” exists.

    Perhaps his book is substantially better, though, after having just purchased one of Dr. Joseph Farrell's (an author who – it is breathlessly noted throughout his bio – has a Ph.D. from Oxford) about the Nazi-UFO connection only to discover virtually the entire first two chapters were footnoted with references to this website – – my tolerance for cash outlays on most of this is fairly low (MU+ subscription excepted, of course; I think B&A could read the dictionary for two hours and I'd still subscribe, though that's more a credit to their presentation ability and their intoxicating voices that threaten my heterosexuality each time I listen).

    If Kerner presented himself as slightly more lucid (rarely have I heard a serious academic erupt into periodic, random giggling throughout an interview) I might reconsider giving his book a read but his presentation of his own material was severely lacking in the interview.

    Finally, there is nothing ludicrous about wondering how someone with no academic, public or military service, industrial or journalistic footprint outside the UFO carnival circuit would come into contact with multiple high-level UFO insiders in multiple government agencies in multiple countries. What is ludicrous, however, is flippantly dismissing it as too great an encumbrance of proof with which to burden someone making the most remarkable claims anyone has possibly ever made. This is triply true in light of the Richard Theilman incident.

  • Beam

    Hands down the best show to date. Nigel's book was excellent reading. Apparently a few other posters clearly suffer from ADHD & would rather go online to post their complaints after reading all 436 pages. Yeah…right. PS – That's the final page of the Epilogue. Hey Guest999 – Nigel happens to be a Human Being with all the cool, “quirks” ALL Humans manifest. Guest999 was a name YOU chose. Robots aren't given BIRTH names. Sad you cannot see out of the circle.

  • Onomaly Software

    Btw the Nigel Kerner interview was intriguing, but come on…. aliens…tech…software…agenda…souls…? Oh the souls…

  • Steve Parfitt

    My brain felt like mush trying to follow this man's thought processes. I would have to agree with Guest999, the linkages this man makes without a shred of credible evidence is stunning to say the least. I would love to know what Aaron really thinks…

  • Shawn Sterling

    Hi Guys love your show, i found Nigel to be a nice chap but it was a hard listen. But it has stirred some debate here so that can not be a bad thing. I think your best Guest to date has been Michael Schratt from MU 318, i would love a follow up show with him in the future.
    For some future shows is there any chance of looking in to Ray Kurzweil and his predictions from The Age of Spiritual Machines book from 1990 and comparing his future predictions to see how correct he was. Or even getting him on as a guest would be amazing.

    Keep up the good work gents.

  • AwakeneD

    The theories of robotic entities is I believe a truth but as to the reason to why they are here I do not.
    They have I believe-come from a dying world (there ties to us are obvious-as their dying race & world derived from circumstances similar to who we are now-emotional/violent beings) millions of years ago. And you will find these hints through many abduction experiences, with the grays, the abductees are warned of our impending doom of the planet, and the need for us to change our ways toward each other & our planet.

    Their genetics have degenerated to the point that they HAD to develop robotic mediums to transfer their consciousness to (As they transfer consciousness to their cyborg-beings just as we transfer a soul to a biological being) Their reason being here on earth, is of course for genetic material, but only to further create a NEW biology in which their race can continue to evolve, i.e. via the biological birth process, and advanced souls that can be birthed into their new bodies, a race renewed. And as to why they are hidden, the same reason all advanced beings hide from us (Like Star Trek the “Prime Directive” do not interfere in a races free will), the number one reason, we have to evolve on our own and MASTER our selves and our own evolution. We can't be babied and “saved” it doesn't EVOLVE you…it only makes you enslaved to your dependencies on them.

    The “Treasure” they discovered in that pursuit here on earth (or properly put REdiscovered) was EMOTION, for in the process of their evolution they decided the FLAW in their genetics that caused their worlds destruction was emotion. So they used their genetic mastery to eliminate that from their genetic structure. But emotion is tied to the Life Force of evolution of species, and thus they after billions of years are dying out. So now through this discovery they now have succeeded in a “Hybrid” genetic species that, unites the best of both species, their superior mind/consciousness connection and our emotion, now they have a chance to continue their dying race and continue in evolution…

    They are masters of creation, time travel, dimensional travel, and genetics, but they are just like us a race of beings seeking to evolve forever forward, in the mind of god/isness/source, whatever you choose to call it. anyway, that's my spew…. ; )

  • AwakeneD

    And to further quote on my previous comment…
    Would not the absence of emotion create a robotic observational being with an outright clinical approach to it's surroundings and experiences? Absolutely. Just like our own laboratory scientists would act in an experiment on a rat or mouse, not getting emotionally engaged in the examination or procedures.

  • Justin Hahnel

    Brilliant episode guys… again. When I heard Nigel and Andrew's voices, I couldn't help but picture Nigel in a tweed smoking jacket with a pipe and a monocle… very amusing. Either that or as a mad scientist and Andrew his little hunchbacked imp… no offence to anyone, it's just what popped into my head! Ona side note, Ben see if you can interview some of the people from the list above from ST. Back away from the more 'heavier' stuff for a while! Just saying…

  • Reeves

    Interesting interview, also interesting your guest refers to these ET's as robots. Reminds me of when I read Whitley Strieber's book Communion. He also recalls similar accounts to these grays being more mechanical than organic.

  • Robmac

    Both articles I gave links to are fully referenced so I don't know what you mean when you say he doesn't name his sources. If you are talking about the source for his theories rather than for the evidence he uses to back them up well he makes it clear in his book that reason and logic are his source for his insights. You'd probably scoff at this as I might have done if I hadn't read the book. But I challenge you to read it from cover to cover and then make an informed judgement. I have studied the gnostic texts (Nag Hammadi Codex) and I'd say Kerner's stuff has its greatest parallels there. That's one of the reasons why his book was a revelation to me as it explained so much of these texts that had been excluded from the canon of the bible. Ben and Aaron are right this guy makes more sense than you'd think possible. You may not like his informal natural style of presentation but it is so often true that the smoothest talkers are the biggest conmen.

  • Courtney Franklin

    First the bible has to have historical evidence, since the Birth of Jesus mirrors the birth of Moses I'm doubtful that it is historical

  • Campbei

    Either Nigel is very poor at communicating his ideas or he has no theory to convey. His monologue was an uncomfortable mix of incoherent and seemingly random ramblings punctuated by unconvincing and incomplete substantiation. He managed to say a lot without actually saying anything and I have to say I lost the plot half way through, especially as contradictory elements of his theory began to pile up.

    Having said that, I haven’t read his book(s), and some of the individual ideas were interesting. There just didn’t sem to be a composite theory that made any sense at all. The segway to the Turin Shroud was simply bizarre….

  • Gio Renna

    I always thought British cliches like in Simpsons and Family Guy were gross exaggerations. Today, I am proven wrong. Truly, jolly good show, old chaps!